Protect Your Identity with Cybersecurity Expert Robert Siciliano

Episode Summary: In this episode, cybersecurity expert Robert Siciliano discusses the evolving threats of AI-driven scams, deep fakes, and human behavior. Learn how organizations and individuals can protect themselves in a rapidly changing digital landscape.

Robert's BIO: Robert Siciliano is a security analyst, best-selling author, and the Architect of The Strategic Human Firewall™. As one of the world’s most recognizable educators in personal and corporate protection, he is the
'Straight Talk' voice for a digital age.

You’ve seen his expertise on CNN, Fox News, CNBC, and Anderson Cooper 360, and read his insights in The Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, and Forbes.
Robert has served on the board of the Identity Theft Resource Center and is a core contributor to the Realtor® Safety Initiative. He is a man who literally goes to the extremes to prove a point—once even buying a working ATM on Craigslist just to demonstrate how easily our 'secure' systems can be cracked.

To contact Robert, ProtectNowLLC.com

Transcript

Robert (00:02.599)
Today on the PIO podcast, I'd like to welcome Robert Siciliano He's a nationally recognized cybersecurity expert and speaker who spent decades studying how criminals exploit human behavior with the rise of AI, deep fakes and increasingly sophisticated scams. The threat landscape has is changing fast. Today we're breaking down what that means for public agencies and our PIOs can communicate effectively.

protect their communities. Robert, welcome to the show.

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (00:35.584)
Hey, thanks so much. appreciate being here.

Robert (00:38.139)
Yes, sir. I appreciate you being here. You have a very long career, in the field. you spent over 30 years studying criminals, how they think, how they operate, what changed the most with the rise of AI driven threats.

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (00:53.718)
Yeah, you know, we, when I say we humans have been kind of, you know, getting along to going along for the past 30 years and haven't done much in regards to managing risk. And what that truly means is like, many of us don't even lock our own doors. Many of us don't have home security systems. Like there are a million to 2 million homes burglarized every single year. And most people are using the same pass codes across multiple accounts.

We're not using two factor authentication. Like we're not doing the absolute basics when it comes to managing risk. Like the only reason why we wear a seatbelt is because the car won't stop beeping at us until we put it on, you know? We are risk adverse. We just want to think that all people are good, that bad things aren't gonna happen to me. And many of us to a degree function in a state of denial that these bad things don't happen in my neighborhood.

they would never happen here and so on and so forth. Why would a criminal hack my identity? And that's just kind of how we are. Like denial is this wonderful psychological thing that allows us to essentially, you know, avoid worry and fear and anxiety and threats and risk. So functioning in denial is what most of us do. And as a result, here we are, you know, 30 plus years of me doing this. Human behavior hasn't changed at all.

Robert (01:55.068)
Right.

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (02:21.752)
But what has changed is criminals, organized criminals, treat fraud and hacking and crime as a business. It's a business. It's a multi, multi, billion, billion dollar business. most consumers just, you know, we're sitting ducks and AI comes along and AI is awesome in so many ways. AI has truly stripped away the clumsy red flags of traditional fraud.

In the past, criminals relied on what we would call blunder force phishing, mass blasting emails riddled with scammer grammar. Today, AI allows for high precision impersonation at scale. And criminals know this and they create deep fakes and voice cloning, and they're duping people for millions to billions every single year at this point.

Robert (02:51.325)
All right.

Robert (03:15.141)
Right. You talk a lot about the human blind spot. Can you explain what that is and why it's even more dangerous in an AI world?

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (03:22.188)
Yeah, so the human blind spot is basically our biology, you know. It's that psychological instinct to trust others, to trust what's familiar. You know, we are what is considered an interdependent species. We depend on each other for our survival. Man needs woman, woman needs man to procreate. And the basis of that is we got to trust each other, right? Otherwise, if we didn't trust anybody, then we would never leave the house and the species would just, you know, stop.

But that human blind spot, that psychological instinct to trust what's familiar to us and others is basically this cognitive gap where biological trust, which we all possess, overrides suspicion, leaving the door wide open for all kinds of fraud, AI enhanced deception. I mean, you name it. Think of like biological default to trust and the psychological heuristics or the shortcuts that criminals use to bypass human logic.

Like, how could I fall for that? Well, your blind spot. know, biological impulse versus intellectual understanding. It's the internal conflict between our evolved survival instincts and our modern knowledge or lack of knowledge of various digital risks.

Robert (04:41.319)
So you talk about deep fakes often and when people hear deep fakes, they think of just fake videos. What are the real world threats you're seeing right now that the public should be concerned about?

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (04:53.002)
I am seeing more and more like, you know when you get those wrong number text messages? Okay, well, there's a purpose to those. I get three or four a day, and I respond to all of them. Most people either delete them or they mark them as spam and block them and so forth. Some people or many people respond to them. And the point of all of those wrong number text messages is...

Robert (04:58.365)
Mm-hmm.

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (05:17.384)
once you engage, like, hey, Robert, are we supposed to have lunch tomorrow? You're like, I'm sorry, who's this? And you're like, they respond with, I'm sorry, this is Gloria. Hi, Robert, nice to meet you. And Gloria is like this beautiful, you know, Russian model or whatever, right? And so, and I'm like, hey, Gloria, it's a real pleasure. What are you, a model or something? And she responds with actually,

I own a cosmetics company, I invest in gold and cryptocurrency, and then the dialogue begins. Well, Gloria is basically being manipulated by a puppeteer. She's a neural puppet, so to speak. And the puppeteer is a human somewhere in Southeast Asia that is managing thousands of neural puppets at the same time.

And thousands of Roberts are responding left and right to Gloria. And that dialogue is a grooming process that AI is capable of at scale, scamming millions and millions of people at the same time. And we're seeing like hundreds of billions of dollars lost every single year in these various cryptocurrency romance scams, which they call pig butchering.

Robert (06:19.165)
Mm-hmm.

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (06:43.82)
And when you say, I'm not, I can't be scammed by something like that. You'd be surprised. They're really good at what they do and they're making a ton of money doing it.

Robert (06:49.405)
All right.

Robert (06:54.139)
Yeah. Years ago, I, when I worked in law enforcement, end of it, I helped a woman through one of our mayor secretaries who had been built out of $40,000 that she had sent overseas to her Nigerian boyfriend. Now that was the old way, a lot different now. How convincing are today's AI generated voice and video impersonations? Are we already at that point where the average person can tell?

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (07:21.282)
So a voice clone is virtually impossible for the human ear to detect. If a voice clone is deployed, it's basically taking seconds of audio and turning those seconds of audio into an entire dialogue. And the human ear cannot decipher real from fake. A true voice clone is impossible to determine.

unless there's technology specifically designed to detect it, which most of us do not possess that, know? And, so you, you know, or I get a phone call from a loved one, father, daughter, you know, son, mom, whatever, or colleague, CEO, attorney, somebody that we know, we know their voice, we get a phone call and the initial voice is them in a bit of a panic. And next thing you know, somebody, you know, grabs the phone.

And it's the voice of a deep voiced man saying, have your daughter, let's say. And she's been kidnapped. And unless you wire me $10,000 and you hear the daughter in the background literally screaming, mom, dad, like, please just pay him. Whatever you, whatever you're going to do, please don't let him hurt me. Please get me out of here. Like you literally hear her screaming in the background, which is a voice clone.

That is becoming extremely successful. Nobody wants to believe that their loved one has been kidnapped. But when you pick up the phone and you literally see on caller ID it is your loved one because of caller ID spoofing and you hear him or her on the phone desperate, there's a chance you're wiring $10,000.

Robert (09:11.505)
Yeah. Yeah. No, I mean, I get it. We're there was a CEO. It was one of the companies in Japan that that $25 million got transferred from a phone call. I mean,

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (09:23.022)
So it was a CFO as a result of, and actually it was more than a phone call. It was so simple and sophisticated all at the same time. So between voice cloning and AI deep fakes, and a form of deep fakes artificial intelligence face overlay, where you and I could be having a conversation right now, and my face could be, know, Jeff Goldblum.

Right? And I'm talking to you like I'm Jeff Goldblum and it looks like Jeff Goldblum and I'm literally using Jeff Goldblum's voice in real time. Right? So there's a AI face overlay and voice cloning all at the same time in a Zoom call.

Robert (10:12.027)
and you'll never know.

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (10:13.292)
And you'll never know. And so the CFO is talking to a half a dozen coworkers over Zoom. Colleagues that he's corresponded with via email and telephone and even Zoom in the past. And they tricked that CFO into transferring $25 million. And that scam has become the boilerplate moving forward because if they can make that much money from a Zoom call via technology that anybody with an iPhone can manipulate.

It's awesome and awful all at the same time.

Robert (10:47.675)
Right, right. So what are some of the most common AI enabled scams targeting organizations right now?

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (10:54.444)
I would say company officers that are being AI deep faked and voice cloned, calling on or contacting employees, coworkers, looking for transfer of funds of any kind, looking for sensitive documentation of any kind, getting access to usernames and passcodes of any kind to get access to sensitive information. Manipulation at this point.

is AI deep fakes and voice cloning to get access to the most sensitive of information and deepest bank accounts.

Robert (11:35.983)
Okay. So if, that's the most common thing and you have, how, how does an organization going to protect itself from that happening? What do they need to do?

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (11:46.36)
Well, I think at this point, security awareness training that goes a bit deeper. And when I say goes a bit deeper, it's more than simply just, know, phishing simulation training, which is what most security awareness training is today. It's essentially recognizing that, you know, these things are happening and the existing compliance based training, you know, again, phishing simulation training isn't really

Robert (11:51.815)
Mm-hmm.

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (12:15.242)
doing the job and that companies need to engage in a higher level of what I would call or consider security appreciation training. So if you look at all security as being personal to the employee, Like personal security, as you and I know it is like violence prevention, right? But personal security truly is more than violence prevention. It's like what's more personal than your identity, right? And so when you teach and train

employees from a personal perspective, right? With the core belief that people protect what they love, like, you know, by teaching someone to secure the child's digital footprint, their own identity, their bank account, you know, their spouse, and so forth, right? You create more secure employees at work. And by doing this, you adopt a methodology that I call the strategic human firewall. So the strategic human firewall is specifically designed

so that we recognize risk as it's coming down the pike, so to speak, right? The idea behind the strategic human firewall is it blocks deception. It's a proactive governance. It's a mindset that turns employees or citizens into, from passive targets into active detection layers. It's the shift from like I automatically trust what I see, I trust by default to I verify everything.

Robert (13:19.346)
Mm-hmm.

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (13:42.444)
The idea is to evolve from security appreciation to what I call, I'm sorry, evolve from security awareness to what I call security appreciation, which essentially is the shift from awareness, which is knowing, to appreciation, which is caring. And so when employees appreciate how security works in their own life, behavior changes permanently. I call this the security appreciation gap. It's that chasm.

between an employee's intellectual understanding of risk, which essentially is awareness, and the emotional commitment to act on that information, which is appreciation. And ultimately we achieve what's called the kitchen table effect, which basically is a multiplier effect where successful training ends when the employee goes home and teaches what they learned to their family, cementing those lessons for life.

Robert (14:32.157)
So what you're saying though, is that you also got to get the, the executives, the leadership, the CFOs, the CEOs to buy into this too, because if they're getting questioned then by an employee to verify information, then that's got to be acceptable because years ago I didn't think, you know, a secretary or accounts payable person is not going to question a CFO when they say transfer money.

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (15:02.2)
Well, that's it.

Robert (15:04.315)
Right. Okay. Okay. I get it. All right. So from a public information officer's perspective, why should AI driven deception be considered a communications issue, not just an IT problem.

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (15:19.916)
Because at this point, you know, we're not really, I don't know that we're even effectively engaging in security awareness training at all. And ultimately it really truly is a communications issue. We're not communicating security awareness training at all. Like we're not even addressing the

Basics at work other than phishing simulation training, right? And so Right. We're not addressing the human where they're at in their lives Like when I get in front of a live audience, I get you know hundred people five hundred people I am I'm asked to go speak because the CIS whoever is like frustrated and they're saying look at we just want our people to care about security That's all we want. We just want them to care

Robert (15:53.873)
Yeah, yeah, I'll agree with you that I'll agree with you that

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (16:18.338)
And so my job is to go in and to communicate what security is and what security isn't. And I start that process by engaging in a dialogue. And most security awareness training is a monologue. It's being told what to do. Look out for this, be aware of that, don't do this or else. That's most security awareness training, which is not communication. It's being told what to do. Nobody wants that. When, when your loved one, when your child comes home from school, right?

Robert (16:43.152)
right right

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (16:48.206)
15 years old and she's had a really bad day. Something bad happened in school. It's something, you know, not bad, but like, you know, she's bothered by it and she comes home a little emotional. What do you do? Do you tell her what to do? Do you yell at her? Do you belittle her? No, you set her down and you have a conversation with her. Okay, honey, what happened? And you begin to engage and find out and flesh out. And as she responds, you respond a little bit more. As she responds, you respond a little bit more. And before you know it, like you're engaged in this dialogue.

that like, before you know it, like you're hugging and everything makes sense now. And now she has enough information going forward that like she knows what to do next. Now I'm not asking a single, you know, PIO to walk, to go out and start hugging their coworkers. But what I am asking is to like engage in a little empathy here, right? And so if we like, if we look at like, I think we all have like some type of like all hands on event.

Robert (17:36.87)
Right.

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (17:46.552)
where everybody gets in the room. And I think there's a tremendous opportunity here, where we look at security today or information security, AI, deep fakes and voice cloning. This is the stuff of 007. It's like Minority Report, Tom Cruise, Mission Impossible stuff. It's Hollywood level security. It's awesome. It's pretty awesome what they're capable of doing. I think this is a perfect opportunity to engage

Robert (18:06.013)
Mm.

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (18:16.0)
everybody in your charge in security appreciation training because this stuff is fun. It's interesting. It's more than security, right? This is sci-fi stuff that grabs people's attention, you know, and, the way that we like start this process is, know, like everybody has somebody in their life that is at risk in some way. Like think about like your dad that can't stop clicking links or your mom.

Robert (18:29.223)
Right.

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (18:43.778)
that every time she gets an email or a pop-up that looks like it's from Apple, she calls the number thinking she's getting Apple on the phone and she's talking to scammers in Southeast Asia. Next thing you know, they're on her computer and you've got to react and respond to that now. And so by engaging those with, this is what's happening and this is how we deal with these things, this is how we fix these problems.

Robert (18:50.0)
Right.

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (19:11.85)
Now everybody's like, this is about me. This is about my security. This is about protecting myself and my family. Now they want more information. And that's how you effectively communicate security appreciation versus like sending out a bulletin, watch this video, take this compliance training. Okay, we're good for a year. Like, no, I mean, do you engage in effective, you know, mental health?

once a year? No. you in effective physical health once a year? No. This is ongoing processes that need to be managed in order for us to live quality lives, both personally and professionally.

Robert (19:51.099)
right.

Robert (19:57.842)
Robert, you emphasize shifting from trust to verify. What did that look like in real behavior for employees?

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (20:04.28)
Well, I call it the AAA protocol, right? It's basically the manual override. So you get a phone call, you get a text message, you get an email. Number one, the AAA protocol is authenticate. Okay, so don't just automatically trust the information being presented, right? Verify the source. Like, where is it really coming from? Is it really coming from PayPal? Is it really coming from my coworker? Is it really coming from the federal government?

Right? So that means from that point, know, authenticate means verify the source. And in verifying the source might mean utilizing what we call OOB, which is out of band verification. It's essentially like the kill switch that can kind of like stop the scam right in its tracks. If a request comes in via email, text, or even live video for that matter.

you must verify it through a secondary independent channel. Pick up the phone, call a known number, right? Meet in person. Basically, like break that scammers monopoly in that interaction by you going out of band. And then, you know, the second part of the AAA protocol, you know, is authenticate and authorize. Is this...

request outside the scope of normal operations. It's like what they're asking me, something that is normal, like is it normal that my boss would be asking me for a password via WhatsApp or text message for that matter, you know, or calling me on my personal phone on the weekend. Is that normal? Or messaging me on Facebook and so forth, right?

And then ultimately, audit all of this. Look at the whole thing and go through it. And what could go wrong here? And what is the real motivation of what's happening here? And by authenticating and authorizing and auditing and using an out-of-band verification, you're actively engaged in the strategic human firewall. I would think at this point in you and I and our lives, we're already what we would consider.

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (22:22.164)
a strategic human firewall. Like when you get an email or a text message or a phone call, you're like already sniffing out the BS. You're already looking for, yeah, no, you know? And so you're already like communicating this to people in your life that you're responsible for because you're already like seeing it as it's coming down the pike. Whereas more people than you can imagine don't and they need to, you know?

Robert (22:31.814)
Mm-hmm.

Robert (22:48.797)
Right. No, you're right. Right. No, I agree. Since PIOs are responsible for educating the public, how do you communicate a cyber threat without causing panic?

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (23:01.932)
we provide the absolute basic examples. like, know, there's this, like when you teach, like for example, when you teach a child about how to prevent an abduction, right? You don't like sit them down and scare the heck out of them and say, listen, you see a white van pull up, just run. Because going forward, they're just gonna be afraid of white vans, you know?

Robert (23:30.333)
Mm-hmm.

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (23:30.894)
You engage them empathetically. And when it comes to various cyber scams, I find the most effective way to engage a learner or a listener is to reverse engineer the bad guy's process, is to essentially show how the sausage is being made. And when you reverse engineer their process, show the sausage, the inner workings of it all, it's intriguing to them.

They're like, I have inside access to how the bad actor does what they do and how they choose their victims. And they begin to see a little bit of themselves in that storyline and how they would react and respond. And as we relate this to each of us and our loved ones and ourselves for that matter, as we make our own selves vulnerable and how we may be tricked by something like that, we flesh it all out and you know,

kind of humanize it like we've mentioned, it changes things a bit. It's not do this, don't do that, or else, shaming people. It's hey, you know, like this is what I've experienced. This is how I see it. Like this is what I've, you know, people that I know that have been victimized and this is what's happened as a result. And these are the telltale signs and just kind of like sit with them like you would a loved one.

Robert (24:34.886)
Right.

Robert (24:54.021)
I appreciate that. So have you seen, have you seen some of these agencies where they're doing the deep fake audio, where they're changing the language like Spanish and things like that? What are your thoughts about the agencies doing that?

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (25:10.313)
you know-

I'm not sure I understand the question, I'm sorry.

Robert (25:16.445)
All right. So there are a couple of law enforcement agencies in the last year that have recorded, their chief speaking Spanish when they don't speak Spanish and they've used the AI to take their voice and then create a Spanish dub. And then it, and then it matches it up to the, to the face of the chief. And obviously it's moving the lips and it's doing all that. What's your thought about them? Do using AI to do that?

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (25:40.6)
Yeah.

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (25:46.978)
So I personally don't have a problem with that. But I think that there are certain segments of society that consider that cultural appropriation. And cultural appropriation is a thing. And there are concerns of that. And some cultural appropriation may or may not be appropriate. Is it appropriate that we utilize cultural appropriation in a language? Is that problematic? I personally don't have an issue with that.

Is that taking food out of the mouth of someone that could do that job? That's how some might look at that. Why don't you just have a translator and somebody that can do that as well and pay them? Or is it much cheaper to do it via AI? I think the inevitability of voice cloning in that regard being used in situations like that is here. And I think that if we continue to fight it,

then it's just gonna cause fights and angst and anxiety where it doesn't necessarily need to be. I don't think there's anything inappropriate. I don't necessarily believe it's cultural appropriation. I think it's just, this is the most effective way to execute a message, both financially and expeditiously.

Robert (27:07.495)
Do you think it opens up the agency to trust issues in regards to that where if they're using AI to do this, what else are they using AI to do?

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (27:17.954)
Whenever a new technology comes about, there's going to be all kinds of what if this and what if that. And I suppose people are certainly entitled to their questions and concerns. And I think it's just a matter of effectively communicating those concerns. And ultimately, there are going to be those situations where there's going to be abuse. But I don't know that like

That is the motivation of agencies whose responsibility is to protect the public.

Robert (27:53.502)
Okay. All right. So on the other perspective of that, you have, say you have a image of a chief of police that is now, it's, it's, it's out there and it's asking people to donate money to X cause whatever it might be. And it's not a legitimate cause. It's a deep fake. How should the agency, respond without amplifying the fake?

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (28:19.97)
Well, as quickly as possible, bring attention to that potential to that fraud. And as far as amplifying the fake goes, think like we've seen, you know, it started off during the 2020 election when Joe Biden's voice was being used in the state of New Hampshire in robo calling, basically dissuading people from voting based on Joe's voice being used.

Robert (28:38.759)
Mm-hmm.

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (28:49.92)
with dialogue, verbiage, saying such. And that likely had a small effect, but it had an effect. It's when misinformation and disinformation and outright scams are being perpetrated using these various technologies that there needs to be a protocol in place to address these issues.

similarly to residents receiving phone calls or emails or text messages, that matter, to pay a toll. It's a fraudulent scam. And as we put those systems in place, these protocols to broadcast these issues, I don't know that we're going to perpetrate the fraud or scams, but most will bring attention to them to...

inform and educate the public so that they are, you know, what do they say, forewarned is forearmed.

Robert (29:55.634)
Gotcha. Robert, if you could give every PIO one mind shift change when it comes to AI and cyber security, what would it be?

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (30:05.006)
I would say make all security personal to you first. Protecting your own identity, getting things like a credit freeze, updating your passwords, never using the same passcode twice, using two-factor authentication, using a password manager, know, locking your own doors and having a home security system. Why? Because these are all the absolute fundamentals of personal security. And if you yourself are leading by example and doing all those basic things,

and engaging in best security practices in your own personal life, then executing that stuff in your own professional life and educating all those around you and communicating security awareness or security appreciation effectively becomes a no-brainer. There needs to be a level of congruency when it comes to being a communication professional. As a professional speaker, as a certified speaking professional,

I need to be able to personally effectively communicate with my 17 year old daughter. I need to be able to effectively communicate with my, you know, distressed 58 year old honey who's dealing with her mom going into assisted living right now. And to be able to navigate all that noise and to be able to effectively communicate in that regard. And if I can't talk to my wife and have an effective communication in putting fires out with her,

How am I going to get in front of an audience of 500 people and effectively communicate? And if I don't have my own security in order and my own life, who am I to get in front of an audience and talk about personal protection and personal security? So you've got to be the right messenger for the message. And that means being congruent in all aspects.

Robert (31:36.87)
Right.

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (32:00.705)
of your life in regards to your profession.

Robert (32:03.965)
Right. I appreciate that. Thank you. Is there a question I should have asked and if so, how would you have answered it?

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (32:10.414)
Well, we were pretty thorough. I would say, you know, going forward,

Protecting your own identities is such a simple thing to do that most people aren't doing and it's causing such a mess in people's lives. And if you're not already engaged in something called what's called a credit freeze, and a credit freeze is a free tool that's offered by TransUnion, Experian, and Equifax. This is such a simple one-on-one thing that like 90 plus percent of the general public isn't engaged in. A credit freeze is free. It locks down your identity. It locks down your credit report. So a lender can't

check your credit scores when they receive an application for credit. And that way, like you're protected from new account fraud when new lines of credit are being opened up under your name. That won't happen if you have a credit freeze. So that is like the one-on-one thing that everybody should be doing right now to protect their own digital lives and make sure that everybody in their life is doing the same thing.

Robert (33:19.537)
Yeah, I have one of those on me. and you know, like you said, it's Best thing I ever did really is after I had, we had one of our friends, have several thousands of dollars taken as well as, credit cards opened up under their name. And when they were telling me how it happened, I'm like, yeah, I gotta, I gotta lock that down. So that's when I put the freeze on mine.

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (33:44.494)
two thumbs up.

Robert (33:46.006)
Yep. I Joe Robert final thoughts. What key points would like listeners to take from the interview?

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (33:53.335)
Listen, you know, I would say listen to this twice. We did a deep dive on a topic that most people don't really spend a whole lot of time thinking about. And it's so new that, you know, a lot's going to change. But the foundation in which we discussed today, I think the fundamentals that we went over, I think that there were a lot of moments in today's dialogue that

are worth listening to again. And as they say, know, repetition is the mother of skill. And I've been doing what I do for 30, 40 years at this point. And I don't know that you're gonna completely absorb the entire thing in 35 minutes. I think if you listen to it at least twice, you're gonna pick up a couple of things. Like I'm a big fan of watching the same movie over and over again, because I always pick up something new, like that is like, that I didn't see before.

Robert (34:47.024)
yeah, I love doing that.

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (34:51.852)
and you'll get a lot out of this podcast if you listen to it a couple of times.

Robert (34:55.589)
Yep, absolutely. As we wrap this up, is there a motto or a piece of wisdom that you'd like to share?

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (35:02.83)
Well, I kind of shared it and I'm going to share it again. Look at all security is personal. People protect what they love. And by teaching a person to secure their own digital lives, their child's digital footprint, making it personal about them, making it personal to you, that's how we change hearts in order to change minds when it comes to security appreciation.

Robert (35:28.005)
Robert, how can people best reach out to you to connect or follow up on whatever you've talked about today?

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (35:33.186)
Sure, I am on all the socials, Robert Siciliano, S-I-C-I-L-I-A-N-O, search that. Connect with me on LinkedIn. Otherwise, my website is ProtectNowLLC.com. Again, ProtectNowLLC.com.

Robert (35:48.037)
And I will add all of that into the show notes. Joe, thank you for being on the show.

Robert Siciliano CSP, CSI (35:51.801)
Thank you so much, sir.